Nana Abuelsoud is a feminist and a population and reproductive rights researcher based in Egypt. She is a member of Realizing Sexual and Reproductive Justice (RESURJ) and is on the Advisory Board of the A Project in Lebanon. Nana follows and contextualizes national population policies, and builds evidence that addresses modern eugenics, regressive international aid and authoritarianism. Through her role as a Programs and Advocacy Coordinator in RESURJ, Nana co-organizes young feminist spaces, connects feminists from different movements across regions, and co-builds transnational South feminist analyses on intergovernmental and policy making spaces. Previously she was part of the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights and Ikhtyar Feminist Collective.
Noor: Let’s start by talking about reproductive justice, in general. Please give us an overview of the very important work SRHR activists have done and are doing and why is it important for feminist and SRHR activists around the world, and particularly in Egypt, to commemorate International Safe Abortion Day?
NA: It is really important to recognise that the reason behind our wins and achievements has to do with the amount of work that feminists from older generations have put together, the mobilisations and organizing that they have invested their time, efforts and resources in. So, it goes without saying that it is a never-ending struggle. Commemorating International Safe Abortion Day has to do with the continuity and sustainability of our progressive feminist agenda and making sure that it is not being confined to only laws and slogans. ISAD serves as a reminder to feminist activists that though having access to safe abortion is an aim of the movement, a big part of the responsibility is to continue the education around abortion and reproductive justice and to ensure that safe abortion is accessible to everyone and reaches those at the margins just as such as those who have the means to access it.
It is important particularly in Egypt to continue focusing on abortion and the struggle for reproductive justice because to this day, we have feminists who have their own misconceptions around abortion procedures, for instance the efficiency and effectiveness of self managed abortion. So, ISAD is a day for us to streamline and mainstream what we know so far around medical abortion and options. It is not just an external facing work, it is also a day for us to talk to each other, share with each other our own reflections and positioning with regards to this, and learn from each other about how we can work with the reproductive justice framework to guarantee access to safe abortion in Egypt.
Noor: We read your article on Mada Masr where you said, “Reproductive justice is distinct from a “pro-choice” framework” – that was really interesting. Can you elaborate a bit on that?
NA: The origins of the reproductive justice framework come from the wins of the Black American feminists who actually conceptualized and operationalized this framework based on human rights principles. Reproductive justice looks at abortion holistically, from and not from an individualistic standpoint. So, it’s important to also locate where the framework and ideas come from.
Secondly, I wrote this piece specifically to engage with some of the things I have been noticing in how feminists mobilize around abortion at national level. Pro-choice is for sure, at least for many of our countries in the Global South, quite an alien concept. However, by looking at the slogans from some of the very recent and emerging feminist initiatives that are advocating for abortion rights in Egypt, the essence of the messaging is rooted in a pro-choice language and approach. So in this piece I pointed at how this pro-choice approach is quite limiting and alienatingFor instance, such mobilizations address barriers to abortion without looking at social class as one of the determinants to access abortion or reproductive health services. So, going back to the human rights language, in many of our countries in the Global South, the term pro-choice doesn’t really have any political currency or magnitude. To say, well, this is a violation of human rights, this won’t move things around much. Instead, our discourse and mobilizations should be rooted more from a community perspective. And we have to understand these distinctions as feminists between demanding/grabbing rights , and how we talk about them, our campaigning should be smarter and not just literal translation. At the end of the day we want more people and allies on our side, not to basically only say all the “right things”.
Noor: How important is transnational feminist solidarity and organizing in challenging oppressive and unresponsive policies regarding SRHR and the anti-choice agenda?
NA: It’s quite imperative actually to organize transnationally, if we want to win and to sustain these wins. In transnational organizing we learn that our local struggles are not unique, and this makes everything less lonely and more understood. From my experience, transnational feminist organizing is a window for hope. A space to share learnings, tactics and tools – not necessarily in a one-size-fits all kind of way -what worked in Mexico might not work in Egypt. However, it is still important to understand that there are a variety of tools which we can utilize and customize according to our own local agenda. We can learn from each other and circulate information that might be useful across borders and across different contexts. Historically speaking, we learnt to work around criminalized abortion through self managed protocols from Brazilian feminists transmitting medical abortion do’s and don’ts across the borders
Feminists have always been working and organizing transnationally and this is not a new phenomenon. It is also important to understand that the global anti-rights mobilizations are predominantly organizing across borders, and not just targeting specific countries and therefore, our resistance can’t be reactive and in smaller capacities. Lastly, sharing from my own experience, transnational organizing spaces are the spaces where I feel held and supported because it can be extremely difficult and brutal to continue doing the kind of work that we do and not have a moment to catch our breath; the political circumstances in which we operate do not allow for that. So, to have a space where you can be angry, understood, and supported, all at the same time, is for me the only way I can make it.
Noor: What are the impacts of far-right nationalism and religious fundamentalism on the sexual and reproductive health and rights of women and nonbinary folks across the world but especially Egypt?
NA: Firstly, I prefer using the term opposition instead of fundamentalism and fascism, and anti-rights when reflecting on the Egyptian context. I think we are in a very delicate position, as there is no mapping of the landscape.
I think it’s really important to recognize that Egypt is an active mobilizer against sexual and reproductive rights and inter-governmental spaces. Though this is not new, there is a startling disconnect between what Egypt does internationally in spaces like on the Commission the Status of Women and in the Commission of Population Development and what feminists know of this influence at national level.. This disconnect was quite evident when in 2020 with the TikTok cases; in which women were imprisoned on the charges of “threatening Egyptian family values”. This series of cases took people by surprise; primarily because no one knew what those family values were about. Egypt’s classic position on “the Family” vs “families” at UN convening is not recognized by many. And the fact that this position predates the drafting and passing of the 2018 cybercrime law that coins this vague concept in our book. We can trace such conceptualization to nationalist liberation movements back in the day, but this is a long story. So, the fact is that I wouldn’t look at the impacts of the far-right nationalism as something that Egypt is on the receiving end of, rather I would think of it as part of how this state has been functioning for many many decades. Egypt is influential in UN’s negotiations rooms and is an active contributor to international lobbyist groups opposing sexual and reproductive rights.
Noor: This year the theme for ISAD is Young People’s Leadership in Abortion Justice. How important do you think the role of young people and youth leadership is in challenging fundamentalism and fascism especially in relation to SRHR?
NA: It is really inspiring to watch so many emerging initiatives in Egypt led by younger feminists and new feminist formations in the landscape of sexual and reproductive rights in Egypt. This was not there ten years ago, and it was more difficult to do advocacy work then because the moment you decide to influence policy, you realise that we have to also work on awareness raising campaigns to gain enough traction on the ground and eventually influence policy. However, these emerging formations have opened so many doors for so many people by making the message and language more accessible. Encapsulating information on pleasure, sex, abortion, and contraceptives in Instagram reels and lives is refreshing, compared to how feminist and women’s rights organizations have been engaging the public.
I don’t know about young people’s leadership and abortion justice in a broader sense as it gets tokenized very easily at global and regional levels. Yet in Egypt and at the local and grassroot levels, they have been really effective and pushing the envelope around what is accepted and what is possible when it comes to abortion and reproductive rights.n